Sergio Pérez explica el desgast a Red Bull i el seu renaixement amb Cadillac

If you say it's the hardest job as a former driver sharing a team with Max. The toughest. I was going into project that was built for Max. First time I met Chris Shanhito and we go racing with two cars because we have to. Otherwise we will be super happy just to race with one car. I say look, I come here and I make the most of it in all regards. Sergio Perez wins in Azerbaijan to take his sixth career victory to the GT's team. I over the liver. In all areas. Even for me that I mentally, I feel mentally very strong. They were very, very tough and I was a toxic. You know, I didn't want to leave the sport that has given me everything in those terms. I can show myself that I'm one of the best and I want to do that. Never fear a storm. Be ready to adapt. The skill is staying true to our selves. Sergio, welcome to High Performance. Thank you for having me. So look, this conversation isn't just for Formula One fans. This is for anyone who wants to understand why hard work matters, why dreams are not always what they seem. And I honestly think that the conversation we can have over the next hour or so can change the way that people view what life is really like for a Formula One driver. The top of this for, definitely. Before we come to the present day and talk about Cadillac in the amazing project you're involved in there, we want to go right back to the beginning. teenage Sergio living in Mexico with the dream. What were you doing at that put in your life to make Formula One a reality rather than just a dream? To be honest when I started it was just a dream and I knew that it was like such a far dream because we in Mexico we'd never had phone on the reverse like I never grew up with the F1 drivers looking at it and I knew like Formula One was wasn't that big it was more about the Indicar in the US, nearby. I don't have, I don't come from family with lots of money to be able to go to Europe. I always wanted to raise cards in Europe because I believed I was one of the best in the world because I was doing carding at a very high level. I was like 12 race in drivers of like 25 American drivers with the world doing well, but I never had the opportunity to come to Europe because it was too expensive. But more importantly, in Garting, I knew that I had to win the championship I was in, and shift there at 12-25s. I had a special license. I was 12, and you can only drive that championship, I think, with 16 minimum. So I had a special privilege. How did you like that? I liked it to do it for you. Because of my level, I won the championship by ADCC. So the next was 120, right. But I was too young for it. I was too young for the ADCC. So they gave me a special license. And if I want that championship, I will get opportunity to drive for to do a test in Eski Barra, which is a series in the US. So I was leading that championship. And I was leading it by emerging. And I had a crash with one of the guys that were very influential in the Mexican Federation and long story short they removed my license. So I couldn't finish the championship. I didn't want the championship. So I felt like it's it's all over you know like it's I quit from from cutting because I thought like if I don't get that opportunity to go with the school area tell me there what's going to be you know how far I will make it so I'm wasting my time here and and then Carlos Lima and Jimmy Morales the owner of the school area they found out about it they called my dad and and I came from back from school and my dad told me a Carlos called me I had a work with him and with Jimmy and they said before you will you will be in the test in Skibara with the championship. Dude, dude, dude, dude. The whole project was very much biased into the US. And I knew that I wanted to come to Europe. I wanted to race in Europe, but I have to convince Carlos because they didn't want to invest too much money in a 14 year old boy. You know, you don't know how good he's going to be. So I was always trying to convince him writing him on messenger, you remember, MSC. And I was like, Carlos, look, I got a new offer from a new team. They want, they want, they want me. It's like, they want you. For how much, you know, like, they, because they want you, yeah, but at the end of the day, it comes to study that you say, how you attract them. I knew I had to wake up like a 3 a.m. in the morning to fund all the teams in Germany to get proposals. All I will say is, you know, I have a biggest sponsor, big money.

And I'm very fast, you know, it's what I was saying, you know, I have a big sponsor, big money, carol's name, carol's name. And when I told them carol's name, they were like, okay, so now we're talking, but the money wasn't guaranteed. No, and I knew the problem, the problem is like, I have a lot of money, but they don't want to spend it, you know, like, so, and they were giving me offers to driving in Formula V and the whole new in Germany, but they were all very expensive. So I kept sending those offers to Carlos, he was like, no, that's too much money, too much. And then out of the sudden, I found that less than 50% of the budget to do the Formula V and the whole new with a team, with a team that had one car in the garage, a team that finished, they had one truck, they didn't have mechanics or engineers. say, he sent me an offer and he was like the cheapest of all. This is it. This is the one that we saw. So I sent it to Carlos and look what I got. And, Garza, wow, this is really. You want to do this one? Yes. So we got the deal. And I was like, I remember on the fly home on the fly from Mexico to Germany, it was freaking myself out because I thought, this could be a fraud. I got there and a great friend, you know a great guy, Guntar Guntar, on the Rainer. It was there, waiting for me, it was like, it was in December so cold. This is what I signed up for, you know, and I already had the opportunity. I was super happy Guntar was great guy. But Guitar had mechanics within a had engineers. So he found an engineer, we found few mechanics around, we made a great team. And on our debut we would nearly want the race. I was racing with Holcombery. Yeah. He won the race and I finished second. And he was like, God of thought, like, wow, this guy is good. You know, like, his hungry and son and everything. It started there. Can I ask you from the age of 12 when you first realised, this is what you want to do. Well, Pensel, he was arriving Germany. You've put yourself under an awful lot of pressure. Yeah. What did you learn about yourself during that period that you still used today? I think I developed my character, you know, because I've been through so much at a young age, you know, and the uncertainty of not knowing what comes next, what you can do with your future, like race after race, facing that uncertainty, you'll be a lesser actor, a certain character, even if I didn't make it, if I didn't make it to F1, or if I didn't I had a successful career. What teach me there, that character that I built, I could do anything, you know, and because it's really hard to be that part, you know, with so much on your shoulders, such a young age that I felt like when I came to Formula One, I have a tough period, they've been nothing for me, you know, because I already built that character. That moment at the airport where you leave your family in Mexico when you fly an over-sug Germany. What was the strongest emotion was it to be great at leaving your family home? The first time he was excitement, you know, coming here to Europe, raise a Europeans, meet the all the phone number one. You know, you develop this sort of picture in your mind that you will come here to Europe and you will be meeting all the phone number one drivers hanging out with them potentially going to the front with them, you know, like, you know, you're gonna be part of their gang. But you come here to Europe completely on your own. Yeah. I was shocked, you know, I was like, what they do now in Germany. And it didn't speak any English. Last German. I was like completely on my own and they would drop me in the, at that point I was living on a hotel. How you call it? Where the truck is, they truck stop. Truck stop.

Yeah. Hotel. I was living in one of them. You came to Germany and then I put a truck stop, Motel. Yeah, yeah, Motel. Yeah, really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there. Do the truck drivers. Yeah, all the truck drivers, all the truck is completely on my own. I was like, you know, I'm only racing on the weekends. You know, so it was really, really tough. And I couldn't come back to Mexico between races because it was very expensive. I was very tight on budget. So for me, the toughest periods were when the race finished. I remember like coming back from a race, you know, we had a motorhome. And Gunti will drive it. I will be next to it. He will like leave me at home. I was like You know when is the next race in two weeks what thing going on though the next two weeks? You know because they're in the middle of nowhere and Those beers were very very tough, but then Gunti Did a restaurant he he was building a restaurant so he told me You want to help me to build it. I was like, please take me wherever. So we started building a restaurant and then once the restaurant was very hit on me You want to come you can live there with a chef on the top floor. I was like for sure You know like I could live I could live with someone I can expect to someone It was a worst nightmare for the chef In my 14 year old Mexican with a Mexican timezone You know because when I was not racing I was just speaking to my friends on the computer, but on their time zone, you know, and it was a chaos, but overall it was fantastic experience. What did you learn about loneliness and how to cope without showing up time then? Yeah, I, you know, that's a tough question because for me loneliness is really good. It's really good, I think it's a period where you can analyze deep inside you. Like what you want, you know what you want. About those moments for me to was in a game. For me was my future, it was the opportunity of my life. I remember I wanted to go back, you know, like I was about to call Carlos and say, look Carlos, thank you very much for the opportunity, but it's too tough for me to be away from my family. And I remember my brother because he was high up. He tried in, in, in, in formula for than he to try to come to Europe, but then he got to stop because he didn't find the opportunity. He told me like, this is where you can do, is to give up and and come back, you know, because, and then if you come back and you want to do it later in two, three years time, it's over, you know, the opportunity is now and the time is now, and you have to make the most of it. So, I was pretty shocked, yeah, he was tough and I said look, so in that loneliness it helps you to really go deep on yourself. For me, when I'm alone and on my own, I go really deep on myself on what I want, you know. And I know that when I want something, it means, you have to get it now and together, it's the difficult part of it. Because we are going to a lot things are, but it's how you get them. And for me that loan in Lesch helped me to go deep on myself. And it turned out to be the greatest thing you ever did, because the race results were good. You continued to have support from Carlos. He wasn't good in the early, and the beginning you, but then when I went to England, I came to our great team. Dispo with Russell, he got with the Scaly. It was the best time of my career. You know, it really switched on my career. You know, I came from very tough period to grade time. Make sure you stay where you are. In a moment Sergio is going to tell us what happened when he finally got the opportunity to race in Formula One. Here at Hyperformance, we are fascinated by marginal gains. And nowhere is it clear that an informal one, where performance comes down to visibility, precision and speed. 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and then you know that now the, the red thing starts. It was interesting, you're answering that. You said when you got there, you looked at the results are going to be important but the only thing you could influence was your attitude. Yeah. Attitude is a small word. What did it mean in terms of your behavior? What was a good attitude? Well, you know, first and foremost, respecting everyone, coming with it right attitude in terms of humble. You know, I see some kids coming in. They won't last, you know, they won't last that long. You need to come with it right attitude. you need to work with your teens with your engineers, but you have to be extremely humble, because to be here first of all, you have to realize, no, no matter how good you are, you are lucky, you are very lucky, you know, you are here because of the right timing, because of the right opportunity, so many factors that you have to realize that you are very lucky to be here, and you cannot come here and just be with an arrogant attitude, you know, and I mean, once you build your career, you can do whatever you want. But I knew that starting at it, you have to be extremely intelligent. I think that's it. You have to be very clever. It's not just about what you do on the car. People come in here and think that sometimes it's all about what you do just on a single lap. And on your results, it's not about that. Formula 1 is much more than that. you know, and that a lot of very, very good drivers, very quick drivers, and it's not just it's how you feel your engineers, your sponsors, the whole package, you know, you are a brand and you have to be able to have a very strong package around you. So, can you give us a distinction? I think it'd be helpful for people watching a listening, so the searcher between confidence and humility, because there are two sides of a different kind of an ally. I think confidence goes in humbleness. The more confident you are, I think the more humble you can be, you know, because at the same time, you know, like when you jump in the car and people see you, they will be able to show what your potential is, but you don't have to be out of the car, and that's all. You know, you can be just, you know, always remember where you come from and how lucky you are to be in the position you are. Could we go a bit deeper on the word confidence? Because you raced, I think I'm right, 190 grand pre before your first win. That's 190 times you have to watch someone else on the podium. 190 times where you have to ask yourself the question, could I have done a better job today, who knows? How do you stay confident and most importantly retain the belief that one day you will be a Formula and Race winner when it's been that long. You know, because it's Formula 1 and the unfortunate thing in Formula 1 that 90% of your success is down to your car, to your surrounding being there at the right time and the right moment with the right package. You know, I think there are so many good drivers in Formula 1 that are going to live this poor without even a win or even a podium. And he's not because they didn't deliver or they didn't deserve that. It's because our fantastic drivers and I mean it's crazy to think that Holcomb Rihaz won podium in his career. You know, it's I've grew up with him. He's one of the best drivers out there, but he hasn't had the opportunity. He hasn't been there at the right time. That's just how formula one is. We have an interesting conversation with Joshua on this that spoke about. He would set different targets to what we as the public would assume. So if he was 12, he would set himself a target. I want to be 11th in the next race. So the outside of Michael, you've come 11th but he would see it as a victory for himself. Now, how did you go about sets in targets then when you know that 90% of what the public are going to judge success is outside the or control? Well, I think for me it was about, for example, if I was writing for a dean, That was top five finish putting the car always top four, like knowing that I deliver the 120% out of the car. I could go comfortably home. If not, I always had that regret of, I didn't deliver in qualifying, I didn't deliver in the race. So I was always thinking how I'm going to be able to overcome that in the next race. See if I look at your career,

I think there's been some amazing moments. I mean, I would say though that's a year 2020, it's at the top. Yeah, that was a really good, good moment. Before we talk about it, I think it's important, particularly for people who don't know much about Formula One, just to share a bit of the backstory around what happened. Because if we rewind the clock a little bit, you were a team that were going bust, right? Yeah. So when did you first realise that Force India had some financial issues going on? It was really late at the very latest stage. I had no idea on low everything to do with low. But I was home so many. They didn't pay my salary for like, for the entire year. So I was like, it was quite, I don't know, you know, like we were having a bit of delays. But then there was my manager told me that there was a winding up petition. So from one of the suppliers that hasn't been paid, what does that mean? Yeah, basically they can shut down the company. You know, and the whole team will lose their job. I was like, wow, and you can say it. And so what we got to do, well, with the whole process to put the team in administration before the winding out petition comes in place. Who did that? You did, together with Chile. you manage your manager. Yeah. So how do you manage your major decision to effectively sue the team to put them into administration? Yeah, because if we didn't put them into administration, the team will have gone bankrupt at the time. And all those people would have lost their manager. And all the people all the team, so at the time was for Syndia, which is now as so Martin has so Martin will then exist. So we went, we had 90 days to find the buyer and luckily for the team came Lawrence and ended up buying, while we went on administration. So those days where you were having to make a decision to put the team into administration yourself. Yeah. Can you talk us through your decision-making process? Because that is a huge decision that you know is going to be there around the world. That was great. because all of these was happening during the summer, actually during race after race after, so I remember like before going into the car, like having a conversation with lawyers, not understanding it at all. Now it's a lot of this, you know, you can ask, judge your PTSD and you do answer. Back then, I don't know anything. Tell me how to put it for one thing into administration. Back then, it was not so clear. And then at the end, I remember like, telling all my people around like because it's on spat, like the driver is putting the team in administration. So we are a team. So I remember talking to all the staff in one of the races telling the look, I'm doing it because it's only right for everyone here. There was you guys and I gonna lose everything all your jobs and so on. So I ended up explaining them how it worked. And so they were a lot more calm. But at the end of the day, it was a lot of uncertainty doing that administration period. We were overwhelmed with trying to deal with that and then getting the car and drives the car well. I mean, as a driver ideally, you want to be in this scenario where you can just focus on performance, on your performance with your team.

But sometimes you are not in that luxury position. Wow. So how did you do it then? So I ended up trying to be the best, let's say, lawyer. It can be for the team and the best driver to train to separate when I had to jump in in the car, trying to deliver as much as possible for the team because we were having some good races, some races were on the points, even on the podiums. But at that point, it was very critical the future of the team. But, how did you go about setting boundaries? Like what was your cutoff point of when not talking about legal issues now? It was not, you couldn't separate it at that, because it was at the stage that was very critical. So I would be having meetings just before qualifying. I remember one of the, I think, in Puerto Rico, it was just before qualifying, like literally with lawyers and so, and then jumping in the car. And then before the race, instead of being with the engineers, I was with some other meetings. But I was there, I had to do it and have to save the team and that point as well. So when you look back on that period, do you think that actually helped you? Because those distractions allowed you to maybe have a greater perspective. I mean, all I can say, I think I was there and I had to do it. Ideally, I would have like to be in a team where I could just focus on performance, but you end up being at the end of the day, you travel the world with your people, with your mechanics engineers, all this stuff. You're family, you know, you're together, you're a family and if you can do something for them, I'm sure that anyone will do it. The crucial point here is if you're the master of compartmentalizing, right? This is an interesting thing for a lot of people to understand. So Sergio saves the team, but putting the team into a administration, allowing Lawrence Stroll to buy the team, just before his first ever win in Formula One, Lawrence Stroll told him he wouldn't carry on with the team. Son of a guy that you had enabled to buy it, decided to take you out. So before we talk about Sakia, the backdrop is that you were told that you were tired with the team was over. How difficult was that for you? It was difficult, like you said, you know, because I had a three year contract with the team, obviously with options in it. And it was like my future was going to be with that team, you know, that I've been pretty much my whole life. And I I held it to buy it and so on. So I really thought that I was going to be part of that project together with Lawrence and Lance. But then obviously Sebastian came available, you know, for time work, champion became available. And I understood this is how this port works. You know, I knew that it was like great interest. He was going to be a great interest for Lawrence. So he had an option, he didn't renew it. And then he went for Sebastian. And I was like, you look, there is no loyalty in this port. I didn't took it personally. I actually have a great relationship with all the people in Naston. So I said, look, now what can I do? You know, now I just focus on what I can do, which is perform on track. See what happens if there is a good opportunity for the future, I'll take it. If not, I sit out for a year and then come back because there were some interest. You know, I have few alternatives, but not for the year after. I ended up winning my race towards the end of the year. And then Red Bull came. The only team I thought that I was never going to try for was Red Bull, you know, because I always have their academy drivers. So I ended up driving for Red Bull, you know, a very late station in the season. Do you think that you would have got the Red Bull drive without the win in Sackier? No. I think that we knew as very, very important, you know, because it was, it wasn't easy to get into the Red Bull program for Red Bull to say what? We need to look outside of a far pool. They deal with whatever and they didn't really want. It's like our academy is not working. We need to go and find someone else.

It's really hard for them. So they wear a lot of things. So I think when I won the race, it was quite obvious for them that they had to do it. Come on now. Let's just not throw this away with when I won the race. I mean, how you won that race was absolutely remarkable. So you got touched, you had to pit, you're basically now at the back of the grid, and you come through the whole pack. Can you take us into the cockpit that day, talk us through some of the decision-making processes that you went through during that race? Because it felt like you really won the race that day. Basically, I knew we had a massive potential because we were in Bahrain. And it was COVID. So we can be before we race in Bahrain. In the normal circuit, and Bahrain is a toughest circuit on tires. It's a roughest. You know, so it's the toughest, it's the most degradation you have in Bahrain. So we came there in Bahrain, but it was a very different Bahrain with a long, very long straights. They changed the circuit so that we don't race in the same one, but it was the same term. So I remember after the first session, the first Friday, I told the engineers, let's take all the downforce out. I mean, how would you do that in Bahrain? I say, because this is not a normal Bahrain. This is a very different Bahrain. So let's take all the downforce and we were flying that we can. And because everyone was running a lot higher downforce and we were, we were flying and not degrading the tire as much. We really found the balance and we had a very good race car. You know, my strength comes in the races with looking after the tires and so on. And then I had a good start and I was next to Max. I think Bota was leading. Bota was leading the race. And I was second. Max was in the inside and then Charles was on even more on the inside. So at the end, Charles took us both out, thinking he crushed into me, Max tried to avoid me and he ended up crushing. I was like, I mean, how can this happen? It's my massive opportunity. I needed for my career. I needed to give her out of it. Because I was on the podium in Bahrain. I was, I was third, I was running third, and two, three laps from the end. The engine blew up. So, got up at that. Yeah, yes. engine blew up so I was like you know again it's it's over you know because this was the race that I could make the difference so I turned around I keep going they asked me how is the car well it it's just okay I don't know what you never know with the aerodynamics you know if they touch on the floor or anything like that it can be a big problem everything was feeling fine so we end up tuning the tires and we started again. One by one I was like overtaking them all the cars on the back so easily so halfway through the race I was back on the race to score points. So I keep going to towards the latest stages I was really on to the podium and we were like And then the safety car George was leading you know because he's dead in for for Lewis He Lewis got COVID and and yours stepped in he was winning he was leading the race I think both of us was second or both us retired somehow and then they had an issue I ended up in the lead It was my turn to go. I was watching George, George Spades, and then he had a puncture of to come back to the pits. And I ended up winning the race from the back. It was really important. And myself, my thinking was like, look whatever comes next, I've won a race in Poland, you know, even if I don't come back, if I don't win anything, I won a race and period. And did you allow yourself? of to enjoy that moment. Yes, it was very very enjoyable. I remember calling my family

straight after and they were in Dubai. They were coming for my final race in Formula One. And because they had to quarantine, you remember it was a big issue with COVID. So they were waiting for me in Abu Dhabi. They were quarantining in there and they were super happy and we were so happy Yeah, look, let's go now and do our final race. Let's see what happens. What if I'm in my fault always? That instinct that you had to go to the end of the day isn't suggest that you race in a different way. How did you get the confidence to back your instinct when nobody else seems to have done that? And the data may be challenged. You always have to, as a racing driver, you always have to go with your feeling. With there is so much data, can't say, But it's always much more important. You're feeling your experience, you're knowledge. If there's something I've learned in this sport, it's always always go with your feeling, always because regardless of if it's right or wrong, you're challenged the data. Well, you challenge the data. You finally, after 190 attempts, you won your race in Formula 1. And that little, two of your old kid with a dream is suddenly on the top step of an effort and podium. Then it gets even more ridiculously amazing for you. And you get that phone call from Red Bull, which you and no one else was expecting because they have their own young driver program. And suddenly you're in at the time the top-top team in Formula One, and this is like a big moment for you. How do you now reflect on that period in your career at Red Bull? It was great. I would say that it was fantastic. And you know, that I was going into Red Bull into a project that was built for Max over the years. You know, when they signed me up, it was very clear, you know, I knew what I signed up for. And when did I tell you what you signed up for, that it was, did they make it clear? This is built around Max. Did they say, the first time I met Christian, he told me, I mean, we go racing with two cars because we have to, you know? Otherwise, we will be super happy just to race with one car. You know, like everything, it's for Max, I don't know, because we went to win the championship. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So instead of me thinking, you know why, I say, look, I come here and I make the most of it in all regards. And it's what I did, you know, I, I went there with the tools, available that I had to my, to my expense. I think I over the liver in all areas, over there, you know. It worked out perfectly. Of course, it turned out to be there were some very tough times, very tough periods towards the end as well, the pressure and everyone internally, internally, where we had too much success. So people got bored, I think, and they were fighting each other and you know, all the drama around, but they were fantastic, fantastic four years ago. I think I over the liver. And only once I left and they brought in, or the other drivers, they realized it, they'd dropped that I've done for them for four years. Well, you know, the, not my headset on record on our other show, had performance racing, that if they'd have kept you, he thinks last season, that they would have won the World title. Well, you never know. You know, if you, you don't know, but for me, on a personal level,

You know, I still big friends with everyone at Red Bull. Everyone at Asson Martin, that's also some very important, you know, I kept my credibility and my gratitude to all of them, Red Bull, transform my career, and pass on a very simple and gave me a massive opportunity. So at the end of the day, this is a business, and you have to play it. Stay where you are, plenty more still to come from Sergio Paris. You know, 46% of people have hidden cardiovascular risk that they have no idea about. That's what do health have found. But thankfully, I'm not one of them. And I only know this because I recently took the do health blood test. People in my family have had issues with their heart in the past. So my results showed that my APOB is optimal. So APOB estimates the amount of cholesterol carrying particles, moving around your body, the more you have, the more chance it is for cholesterol to settled. Good news is, mine's optimal. but I also love the fact that I've now been given a plan from do-health so I need to drink more water, I need to take more steps and I really need to focus on my sleep so that I know in four months when I take the test again hopefully my stats and my data were improved. This is all about getting in front of health not reacting to it. If you're interested check out dohealth.co. Ford slash high performance and use the code high performance and see what's really going on inside your body. You know, I think the right environment can completely change the direction of someone's life, especially places where people feel supported, encouraged, and seen. And that's the difference, funding raised by postcode lottery players can make supporting over 20,000 charities and good causes through funding raised by its players. And recently we visited Greenhouse Sports to see the impact of that support first hand. They used sport to help young people build confidence whilst providing mentorship, opportunity and a real sense of belonging. And we were there when Matt Johnson would help of rugby player Ben Earl, surprised the team at the charity with a check. For a quarter of a million pounds, made possible thanks to postcode lottery players. Honestly, the reaction in the room was amazing. A real reminder, the one millions of people come together, small actions can genuinely change lives. Learn more about the difference postcode lottery players are making in the link below. postcode lottery, powering hope together. Postcode lottery manages lotteries for 20 charities, and minimum of 30% of each ticket goes to charity, 18 plus conditions apply, not available in Northern Ireland. And there aren't very many Formula One drivers that have been around as long as you have, and they still will love the teams they race to that, but more importantly, the teams love that driver, like it's quite rare, and it says a lot about you as a person, I'm really interested though because it gets spoken about so much by other people that have never shared a team with with Max for stopping. What is it actually like having? Do you say it's the hardest job as a former driver sharing a team with Max? To face Max at Red Bull is a toughest. I mean, already to face Max in any other team, it will be very tough. But to face him at Red Bull with his team, his people is surrounding. I mean, yeah, basically it's tough. And you need the best of the best in all areas. And just just don't have it, you know, while he has it. All the opportunities in terms of engineering, senior engineering, experience engineering. Do you know that everything goes to Max? But I knew it before I came, so I thought, I can either complain or get done with what I have. And this is what I did. You know the four years I was there. I get my same engineering team. Something I feel extremely proud of. What would happen on a weekend where you were faster than Max and you won the race? Or you dominated. They will be very happy. They will be very happy in the team. But the problems will happen. You cannot perform at your best and it's what's happened. Would you be happy to take us into what the psychological impact is? of having to deal with all of that. It's very tough. I think the only reason I survive there is for so long is because first of all of how I built my character. So for me, you would do like peanuts and in that regard, being in that position and accepting, I think you have to accept in which position you are. You know, and you cannot over-push the system too much because they just break you. So being able to and also I was completely on my own at Red Bull, you know, so I could... What do you mean?

Yeah, in terms of management, like I felt like there was not much we could do with the system, you know, this is what you get given and that's really... Did you feel supported? Did you feel supported? I felt supported to a certain point. You know what I mean? More than that nobody was willing to do it. I felt supportive. The thing was behind me, like Chris Shan, Helmut, they will get happy if I win a race on son. But at the end of the day they will tell me, the whole project is on for our driver. Our driver is Max. So for me was clear and I accepted that, you know, I just tried to make them all so bit and they were years where I thought, you know, we are on a bar I can really give a fight but then as soon as they were they upgrade they were going in the the difference will just increase quite a bit. What was that certain point that you felt supported on when did it go now? Pretty much throughout, I would say, you know, they were really happy because they knew what that second seed was about and they knew that whoever they bring, they were breaking in two to three races. Because not because they're not quick enough or that you have to be extremely, mentally, extremely strong. And you have to have the character to be able to cope with all of that. And when they brought the youngsters, I mean, Liam lasted, I think, two to races. And then you know, they forgot of how difficult it was. But before that, there was Gazzly, there was Albo and next, extremely quick and talented drivers. But the system just breaks you. And in that sense. My issue with this, and I know that you're formula one drivers, right? You know the rules of engagement in your sport. But you're still talking about young guys with dreams and visions. There's still human beings. They still have mental health problems and psychological challenges and families to care about. And that's before you even talk about the pressure from the outside world, from social media, from Twitter, from like, and you got all of that, all of that on your shoulder. Did you ever seek outside help? Yeah, I seek out to help because they pushed me for it. because in Red Bull it was funny every time you did it the liver, there were some mental issues. I thought look I'm open to try anything. You know? Okay, so the car gets designed for the other team mate and when you're not quick enough, exactly. So what's going on? You are too focused on, you know whatever, they would think they would really believe, you know, because all of the sudden you see that the driver is fighting the other driver and then you come to another race and it's one second between teammates. It's like they were fighting the last race and now there are seconds. So you are not focused. You know? So I was hoping to everything. So I tried, but I knew that it was like, what was the main course of it? And I took it because I felt like potentially it will show the right attitude for the team. You know that I'm willing to do anything to overcome these issues. And if spoken about confidence, it starts to disinscreate. What did you do to arrest that spiral? I always get believing in myself. You know, I always knew that in the situation that I was. I was always conscious of how I was driving. You know, like as soon as those sub-grates were introduced, instead of being driving on an automatic mode, and focusing on performance, you are trying to prevent things like I knew like I have to come off the debate because otherwise the rage is end up rotate and that sort of things so I end up knowing that I I was in that situation so I have to to get the most out of it and you end up developing new skills of driving differently and understanding things differently. really make you a better driver, do you think? I feel it. Definitely. I think, and also, it's shown me, you know, being four years next to Max, he's a driver driving force, although he has all the support, he can, you can dream of a fundraising driver. Max is a tremendous force, a tremendous complete driver in all the areas, you know. I need really, really teach me how to lead that team as well, you know, on how to be a

partner. Yeah, Max is a pure leader on how he pushed the subject on around him and in performance he knows exactly what he needs to go quick and where he's lacking and he's a tremendous, you know, a hard worker as as well. So being able to learn that and and seeing that in first hand from max for four years in very different cards, definitely has made me a faster driver and also I think not having the the right tools on my side make me to to raise my level as well. Yeah and did the psychology ever help when you met the psychologists? I'm like how many sessions did you have? To be honest, I didn't felt like I was quite open to it, but I felt like my issue was not. It made me understood, for example, where all this pressure was coming from and so on, having that conversation with someone, I think is very important. If you feel like you needed seeking that help with someone you feel comfortable on, and explaining your just your digital. So all I needed at that time I think was how you said I had a club and say like you are in this situation, just make the most of it and that's really it, you know. Yeah. I'm not that like you said that Max was a pure leader, but what's the one aspect that you saw in do that you would take into your own future career? pushing the team in a certain direction, you know, like giving them the direction. Not many drivers can do that. So telling them, like, we're exactly we are lacking in how we can get there. And that's something very, very unique that I've learned. You know, I had them dos meetings, Adrian, Adrian, Etrene, we Christian, Pierre. So knowing from all those guys, how they were dealing when we were dominating the sport, Without a really, I would say that the most competitive package, you know, you were tremendous to see how much therefore it was behind this in. And now you get to use all of those skills that you learned at Cadillac. And I think this is what's really interesting because Cadillac didn't just hire a driver that is great on the tires and uses his brain to win a grown career as well as his ability by an in the wheel. They didn't just hire a guy who had had a year out and had a sabatical to really work out the role of Formula One in his life. They didn't just hire a guy who'd had shared a team with Max for Stappen and so saw what leadership looked like from a driver's perspective. They also hired someone who has got all the experience, but it's so clear now that the fire is still so strong in you to deliver for Cadillac. But in a different way, isn't about race wins, is it? But it's about a different kind of performance. Definitely, definitely. I think this project really, so when I, basically, when I left Red Bull, I had to, I had to take a year out because mentally, it was very tiring. You know, my last six months of Red Bull, we're very tough. Even for me that I mentally, I feel mentally very strong. They were very, very tough and I was a toxic guy. I really wanted to upgrade. I break. So the year I came perfectly in perfect timing. I didn't know at that time if I wanted to come back. When I left, I really thought like it could be it and I was ready for it. I'm very grateful. I wouldn't come back at any cost but I also felt like you know I didn't want to leave this sport that has given me everything in those terms. So when the project with Caddy like came, I thought, it's a project, it's a massive project, it's a massive brand. And when I met Dan, you know, the his commitment. And this guy is very competitive and he will do whatever it takes to take it to a very good level. And it can be my project as well. And I can be a part of it. And I can show myself that I'm one of the best, and I want to do that. because I always believe that I'm one of the best in the grid, but obviously in my period that right will, it takes that confidence of you. You know, when you are not delivering and your teammates is winning and so on. And I always knew what were the issues, but it takes confidence away from you. And that's why I wanted to come back. And I remember one engineer that told me, when I finished with Redwood, told me like, wherever you go, you are extremely fast. And we all know that. I won't say his name, but he would tell me, like we all know that wherever you go,

you are one of the best. Oh, you're no good. I say he just telling me that because I'm leaving. But I also knew, you know, deep inside me, the issues, you know, and most of the engineers say they understood all these problems. But when I came back, And when I showed to myself, you know, I did a test with Ferrari in the middle of last year to get up to speed, Cadillac organized a test, you know, because I set a jet out a Formula 1, I didn't drop anything, because I wanted, I was of course interested in other series and so on. But I wanted to keep my muscle memory of Formula 1. So I didn't do anything, I did some cutting and so on to keep fit. But so when I went to do this test in Emula, I was like, you know, I haven't driven for eight months. So how are you gonna be, I don't know. I went there and within three runs, I was in the pace. Like everything was with me, I said, you know, I, and the ferry was much more of a normal car, you know? Like I will come in and then I started to relax and let my, my natural speed, carry, carry it around and I was like, I knew straight away. I was an issue and I was going to be extremely competitive in more of a normal car. I love that. How many of the eight months give you the additional book you had before you left? Oh, a lot, you know, it made me disconnect from the sport. It made me understand sport a lot more, you know, because when you are in this bubble, I call it a bubble, a phone number one, at the end of the day, it's a bubble that it's very important for us and a lot of fans. that, you know, that we as a driver tend to focus on, you know, you feel the worse driver and you go down really easily if you didn't get a 100% of your potential, you know. And when you're out to the sport, 99% of the fans don't even understand if you've got the 90 or the 30, you know, you should worry less, I felt like, should worry less, and enjoy more the sport. because he said when he first came in, that you wish that he had a fluent swan joy. Yeah, I think that's the main thing I learned. When I went out, it goes by so quickly, you've got to realize that once I realized I was out of it, and I should have enjoyed it more. The good moments we all enjoy them for sure, but even then, even then, I should enjoy them more. You should appreciate them more. And about moment as well, you know, like enjoying them because at the end of the day you are here and it's going to finish at some point. I know something a chance to reconnect with your kids, right? Because they are not that, that to me and with my wife we were able to travel, we went to Africa, we loved it, we went twice in a year, we traveled so much with my kids, you know, the summer. It was great, I really enjoyed it, I had great projects as well, you know, with my, I started some other projects out of racing. And I was really busy, really active. I was not just sitting back on the beach. I was playing golf. I was on my office, building my family office, and everything. It was great time. I really enjoyed it. But when the project came, when I met the owners, I knew that I still have fired me to show myself. of the game and one of the best and I really wanted to come back. Obviously there was that period towards the end at Rebo that you were pretty broken, right? Yeah, yeah, it was very tough those six months. And I feel like that sabatico for it. I know you had a watch and you engraved sabatico. Is that what? I'm a big watch collector. I love watches and before I used to buy more but now, you know, like, I always like to buy if something nice happens in your life. You know, like I want to remind myself, you know, so every time you put that watch on, it's like I have it from my first ever saladdy or like my, my sabatic hole or... I don't think you needed that sabatic hole to rebuild yourself.

Totally, yeah. I think there are times where... I've thought to a lot of drivers, you know, like sometimes all they need is a sabatic hole. And what does success look like for you now, a carlac? I think being able to build something to where they were with the team that potentially can end up being one of the best teams in this sport will be a massive, a massive thing for me. And you've said previously that Czechoslovakia is a character and not the real you. So who's driving the car today? I'm driving the car, you know what, when I put the suit and the helmet, people see you differently. And you have to be very careful not to get carried away into that character because at the end of the day, one day you will take that helmet off and that suit off and you are Sergio. And you, I'm checking, you know, and so I always believed, you know, when it can get to carry the way, but at the end of the day, phone alone, it's such a small part. Once you're done with it, I mean, hopefully we'll have 50 years ahead of us. There's there's so much more things and and at the end of the day the sport is being it's important but it's just such a small part. We're going to wrap up with a few quick-fire questions. After all your experiences the great highs, the race wins, the challenges, the difficult times. What do you believe high performances is? It's not giving up in any difficult circumstances. What are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you have everyone around you is that it's a pioneer. Hunger, number one. The dry force, you know, to don't just, I hate when people just deliver, you know, you hire someone just to deliver everyone can deliver, but to deliver to their maximum. For me it's unbuilding that culture around you, to people deliver at their maximum, not just deliver. It's a big difference. Being able to deliver at your maximum, I want to be with part of that team, you know, and that's running. If you're able to get that's running around you, you made it and then, um, gratitude, I think it's very important those three. What is your biggest strength? I'll say it's my character, my brain. Yeah. And your biggest weakness. I might get set up a bit quick. in patience, okay. In patience, from everything that you've seen inside Cadillac, do you believe that this is a team building something that one day can deliver race wins and potential world championships? Of course, it's very early days. We are only on our sixth race and there's a sort of culture that is building. It's very early to answer you that question, but I consider that the owners will not stop until later that you know and you're talking about a general motors and a TWG. So there are two great forces that are not going to stop until they get there. And for people who have listened to this fantastic conversation, your golden rule for other people who live a high performance life. Don't ever give up, never give up and enjoy the right. In relation to one last question, you've further a full children. What would you want them to say about here? That I always look to the best and to just the most of my capabilities to reach my potential. Whether that potential is to be a world champion or to be a great entrepreneur, whatever is that potential, I always deliver to that potential and that I was grateful. We've got here a little mental and I thank you, GIF, for you coming on the show. show. Those are the commentary notes from the TV coverage of the day that you won your first Grand Prix. So those are all the little bit of information that will be... How he does that. Exactly. So it started. That's a gift from us to you. And that is a reminder to you and your kids that you absolutely have family age. You have family and it's a pleasure. I wish I would have a nice piece of con. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. The Damien. Jake? That was the deep piece I've ever heard Sergio go on the mental toll of his time at Red Bull. I know that you want to talk about a lot of the sort of upbringing staff and the way that he kind of built himself in those early days when he was living in Germany all on his own. from my perspective, he really laid bare there. What it feels like when you're told, okay, you're told a team is backing one driver, right? But remember Sergio can't publicly come out and say, listen, I've been told this team is backing Max. He has to just accept the criticism because he can't tell a little story and then he drives well in the car and he feels good, but then the team designed the car to suit Max's driving style more and more more, which is very different to Sergio's. So then that opportunity to win races and get

great results goes away. So then he just gets massively criticized and even at that moment, he again can't come out and go, well, the car has changed and this doesn't suit my style. It's all about him and all about his failures and all about his struggles. But I actually think there's a few things that have been really valuable for him. I think the fact that he left rebel and the people that replaced him didn't deliver, right? I think the fact that towards the end of of his time there, certain people pulled him aside and just said, look by the way, we know you're fast and this team was not set up for you to succeed. But I think probably the most important thing, you know, he said, didn't need to pause the end of basically he was broken. But that's how it's rebel. He used the word toxic and then we spoke about his sabbatical. I think the most important thing was seem to have that time out together his thoughts to kind of remind himself of who he was. I bit like, you know, at the very start when he said, He learns a lot about who he is in the quiet time, so when he was in that truck stop all on his own and he was bored, I think that was exactly what the process he went through all these years later after leaving Red Bull. And he is renowned by the way as one of the nicest guys in the paddock. And I think that it's a really pleasing that he's had this kind of opportunity with Cadillac to not leave in the way they had left with Red Bull. Yeah definitely. I agree with I think you said, Jake, I've really enjoyed him. I liked his energy. It was really calm. I'm considered and plight. You can see ways of being such a valuable member of every team that he's been a part of. Again, I want them to estimate that that point is said that it's left on good terms with every team. It's been part of it. I think that's something about the character of the humility, but the gratitude. But it was a word that he used in the interview that kept coming back to me time and time again. attitude. Because I think so much of what Sergio was describing was the concept that DeRoma Reigns talked about it as dislocated expectations when you think life has got a plan for you and then it keeps changing. And I think he's a guy that's learned to cope with dislocated expectations. I think a minute team and then he goes Boston. I've got some negotiation and I think I'm in a team that I've got the potential to racially fast and then they tell me that he's not set up for me. And I think his attitude is the bit that was consistent through all those different periods of turmoil, change, and ambiguity. And I think the fact that he saw that it's not just what they're in the car, it's what I do after car, it's the way that I respond to setbacks, it's how make the best of every situation. So many lessons there that any of us watching and listening to this can take and ask ourselves that anyone moment what's my attitude like a guard of the situation that I find myself in. And the thing that I hadn't fully appreciated was what was going on at force in, he when the team was facing. Yes. And he was coming into the paddock, signing Afadevits, having serious legal meetings, which he said he didn't understand. So there's the added confusion there. And he has to do all of that moments. And he told us moments before racing, moments before qualifying. And then get in the car and then switch into race driver mode and then hit your braking points and then nail the apex and then find a tenth on track and then try and make it through the final part of qualifying and then try and score points or get on the podium. And as soon as that was over, out the car, I'm back into another legal meeting because he had principles. And he wanted to protect himself and protect the people that worked at that formula one team. And I agree with you that whether you love or don't love formula one, whether you care or don't care about that as a sport, that was a very human conversation and I'm really pleased that he chose high performance to share it. Yeah, we never take the granted. I'll privilege we are that people are just to come and share those insights with us and help some of the great example of a great bloke, do a great job and willing to share his great insights. Absolutely. Thank you very much, my tears mate. Really enjoyed it and I hope that you enjoyed it too. If you did, please don't just keep this to yourself. Share it with your friends. Tell people that you heard so during high performance and send them the episode. Please also hit like and hit subscribe. 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